Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

James Murray
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Registriert: Do Jun 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von James Murray »

I've answered most of these questions already in this topic.

I hold copyright on the code as do B&G. So we all have rights to the work. B&G are the originators of the code and hardware and it was they who took out patents on the designs. B&G have always dealt with the licensing issues and I have left it that way.

I have sent a link to this topic to B&G.

James
Darkmo
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Registriert: Mo Mai 04, 2009 7:14 pm
Wohnort: Fulda
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Darkmo »

liegt es nun an der Sprache ?
Plus an Masse, das knallt klasse!
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pigga
Beiträge: 1128
Registriert: Sa Mai 07, 2005 3:22 pm

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von pigga »

Darkmo hat geschrieben: liegt es nun an der Sprache ?
Was liegt an der Sprache?
James Murray hat geschrieben:I've answered most of these questions already in this topic.

I hold copyright on the code as do B&G. So we all have rights to the work. B&G are the originators of the code and hardware and it was they who took out patents on the designs. B&G have always dealt with the licensing issues and I have left it that way.

I have sent a link to this topic to B&G.

James
James Murray in deutsch hat geschrieben:Ich habe die Meisten dieser Fragen bereits in diesem Thema beantwortet.

I halte das Copyright an dem Code ebenso wie B&G. So gesehen haben wir alle Rechte an diesem Werk. B&G sind die Urväter des Codes und der Hardware, und sie waren es, die Patente auf das Design beantragt hatten.
B&G haben sich immer um Lizenzangelegenheiten gekümmert und ich habe es dabei belassen.

I habe einen Link hiervon an B&G geschickt.
James, I think it's not that unimportant that you point that out.
Due to the fact that the licensing of MSExtra has changed within the years, there might have been some confusion (to me as well...).
As you may have noticed there also is a speech barrier between german and english (at least for a significant number of people over here).
Originally, the "extra code" was an "own thing", programmed by some enthusiast/idealists, right? It became official part of the B&G Megasquirt thingy later on, right?
So, at the moment using a µsquirt module and designing a custom made "Mainboard" for this module (that fits your needs) is the only way to build a custom made Megasquirt that fits into a stock ecu for instance, right?
It's not that cheap (costs about 170€ IIRC), the costs for the main board are on top, but that's legal. Hm...anyone familiar with Eagle and willing to desingn something like that for common european ECUs like Digifant, Motronic Multec and whatever?.....
On the other hand at least two of the suppliers of MS derivates were willing to pay for a license. Would be interesting if Bowling and/or Grippo get in touch with those persons or the community over here (but to be honest I don't believe in that).


James, ich denke es ist gar nicht so unwichtig, dass Du darauf nochmal hinweist.
Aufgrund der Tatsache, dass die Lizenzierung der "Extra" SW sich in den letzten Jahren geändert hat, kann das für einige Verwirrung gesorgt haben (so war es auch bei mir).
Wie Du vielleicht mitbekommen hast, gibt es zudem Verständigungsprobleme zwischen Deutshc und Englisch (zumindest für eine nennenswerte Anzahl Leute hier im Forum).
Ursprünglich war der "Extra Code" ja eine "Eigene Sache", die von einigen Enthusiasten/Idealisten programmiert wurde, richtig?Es wurde erst später offizieller Teil der Megasquirt Sache, richtig?
Von daher ist die Verwendung des "Microsquirt Module" in Verbindung mit einem maßgeschneiderten "Mainboard" für die eigenen Bedürfnisse ist die einzige Möglichkeit, eine speziell angepasste Megasquirt zu bauen, die z.B. ins original Steuergeräte-Gehäuse passt usw. , korrekt?
Das Modul ist nicht gerade billig (kostet um die 170€ wenn ich mich recht entsinne?), die Kosten für das Mainboard kommen hinzu, aber DAS ist legal.
Hm, kennt sich irgendwer hier mit Eagle aus und hat Interesse so etwas für die gebräuchlichen europäischen ECUs wie Digifant, Motronic Multec und so weiter zu designen?....
Auf der anderen Seite sind zumindest zwei der Anbieter von MS Derivaten gewillt, für eine Lizenz zu bezahlen. Wäre mal interessant, wenn Bowling und/oder Grippo mit diesen Leuten bzw. der Community in Kontakt treten (um ehrlich zu sein glaube ich da nicht dran).
James Murray
Beiträge: 28
Registriert: Do Jun 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von James Murray »

Thanks for the translation. I'm afraid I'll continue to post in English as I would most likely post an inaccurate German version.
pigga hat geschrieben:James, I think it's not that unimportant that you point that out.
Due to the fact that the licensing of MSExtra has changed within the years, there might have been some confusion (to me as well...).
As you may have noticed there also is a speech barrier between german and english (at least for a significant number of people over here).
Originally, the "extra code" was an "own thing", programmed by some enthusiast/idealists, right? It became official part of the B&G Megasquirt thingy later on, right?

I am aware of the language barrier and that I'm posting in a foreign language on "deutschsprachiges MegaSquirt-Forum". It makes things more difficult when when start talking anything legal where a small change in meaning of words can have a large impact.

To clarify though, the MSEXTRA code (MS1, MS2, MS3) has always been based on B&G code. As such it is considered a "derivative work" and B&G still maintain a copyright interest in it. That is the same in USA, UK, Germany. The law grants automatic copyright protection upon the authors.
So, at the moment using a µsquirt module and designing a custom made "Mainboard" for this module (that fits your needs) is the only way to build a custom made Megasquirt that fits into a stock ecu for instance, right?
It's not that cheap (costs about 170€ IIRC), the costs for the main board are on top, but that's legal. Hm...anyone familiar with Eagle and willing to design something like that for common european ECUs like Digifant, Motronic Multec and whatever?.....

That is the approved route and is basically what DIYAutotune do in their "DIYPNP" and "MSPNP" range of products. As I understand it there are worthwhile volume discounts and the module cards can be purchased directly from BGSOFLEX.

Instead of making a plug and play connector / box, another approach is to create off the shelf looms that suit the Microsquirt (or MS3)
e.g.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induct ... st17487218
http://www.efisource.com/shop/ms3-lsx-plug-and-play/

Maybe some skilled loom makers could do the same for popular European cars?

James
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Fearless
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Registriert: Fr Jun 21, 2013 12:04 am
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Fearless »

As stated in my previous post, I'm not even going to attempt writing in German, it'd just insult you anyway. I've been to Germany three times (twice for th' 'ring, once to Munich), and my experience was that when I asked someone (even a lowly supermarket worker) "do you speak English?" they replied "Only a little" after which I had a fluent conversation with them ;-) In contrast, in Spain, you ask the same question, get an emphatic "Yes!" and then fail to communicate at all... Amazingly, the Swedes do it even better than you guys!
James Murray hat geschrieben:Hallo, James Murray hier.
Guten Morgen und Apolgies, meine Antwort ist in Englisch geschrieben.
Que? Como? Que pasa? Hablas Ingles? :-p
I am greatly saddened to see a nation of great engineers (Deutschland) stoop to the low level of simply stealing my firmware and using it on different hardware.
I, on the other hand, welcome people knocking up their own hardware, provided that they do a good enough job of it to do the FreeEMS firmware justice! Having said that, it's not ready for "users" yet, but the attitude difference is clear. Here's an album of DIY contraptions, each of which warmed my heart, and cooled B&G&K&J's overly-swollen wallet. http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set= ... 021&type=3
I am investigating legal action here in the EU also.
Thank you, you're doing so many and varied favours for me right now, I owe you a hand job when we next meet. Just not the type it sounded like when you read that. ;-)
Megamucke hat geschrieben:If not…
If you really want to shut us down here you just have to ask.
… no legal actions required…

I can close this domain in a minute without remorse, but I want to be asked
from EVERY single Megasquirt official to do so!
DO NOT DO THIS!!! You'll ONLY be hurting your users, many of whom are likely your friends. Don't let that grumpy not-so-old bastard shit on your parade.

With respect to the options for complying with their demands, you've already found out above that they demand you use their core boards to base your systems upon. All are flawed. All are overly expensive. All are out of the question for anyone who demands quality on their vehicle. Period.

I was tipped off to this thread by one of your users. Thanks to that guy. What an amusing read.

I hope everyone in here takes a step back, laughs in the general direction of BOGUSFLEX and relaxes. No point getting uptight about this stuff.

Also, although you likely are violating laws and rights by selling clones, you can build your own clones for your own personal use within fair use law, both in the US and the EU. You just can't publish them.

Fred.
Fred Cooke, creator of FreeEMS - The open source engine management system! Number of installs! (with graph)

Also the founder of DIYEFI.org - The Do It Yourself Engine Control Community! Forum available here!
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Megamucke
Site Admin
Beiträge: 286
Registriert: Do Feb 03, 2005 2:44 pm
Wohnort: Leipzig

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Megamucke »

Fearless hat geschrieben: DO NOT DO THIS!!! You'll ONLY be hurting your users, many of whom are likely your friends. Don't let that grumpy not-so-old bastard shit on your parade.
Don't panic ... already taken care of .... 8)
I was only talking about the URL not the forums. :D
(the thread that explains this is in German)
..squirt..squirt..
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Fearless
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Fearless »

Goooooood! Good man! Link? :-)
Fred Cooke, creator of FreeEMS - The open source engine management system! Number of installs! (with graph)

Also the founder of DIYEFI.org - The Do It Yourself Engine Control Community! Forum available here!
James Murray
Beiträge: 28
Registriert: Do Jun 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von James Murray »

Fred,
Yawn. Same old cheap personal insults and mistruths. Perhaps if you focussed on your own ECU and spent less time on your hate campaign against Megasquirt you would make more progress.

More to the point though, if you read through this topic, it is quite clear that many users here are looking for a an ECU that is a complete package of assembled hardware and software - they are not looking for a DIY offering.

James
Acki
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Acki »

Correct. But a lot of guys are able to create a own smart layout. ;)
Fiat Uno Racing, K16, UMC1, Gslender 3.2.1, LC-1, 355cc, Bluetooth
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Fearless
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Fearless »

Acki is right on the money. Furthermore, eff you. Thirdly, I'm feature starving it on purpose, because that's how you create QUALITY software, not the absolute dogs breakfast that you've come up with. Yours lovingly, Fred.


*
...edited by the admin
:wink:
...behave please...
Sure, I'll consider this a warning. But consider this a warning back.
Zuletzt geändert von Fearless am Fr Jun 21, 2013 11:34 pm, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Fred Cooke, creator of FreeEMS - The open source engine management system! Number of installs! (with graph)

Also the founder of DIYEFI.org - The Do It Yourself Engine Control Community! Forum available here!
lupiter
Beiträge: 357
Registriert: So Okt 04, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von lupiter »

Cool ich verstehe zwar nur die Hälfte aber beschimpf hier gerade jeder jeden ?

Ich hole mal Popcorn und Cola :)

Weiter so :)
skeys
Beiträge: 1
Registriert: Sa Jun 22, 2013 12:12 am

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von skeys »

James Murray hat geschrieben: http://www.efisource.com/shop/ms3-lsx-plug-and-play/
James
hmmmm that's fairly cheap. I wonder what the BOM cost on that is compared to the F16 I came up with.
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Fearless
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Fearless »

ROFL, funniest thing I've seen all year! Thanks Germans, for inspiring James to write funny HTML. He's much better at it than firmware.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/auth.php?f=m ... elease.zip

Which inspired me to create this:

http://stuff.fredcooke.com/FreeEMS.auth ... nse.greed/

Excuse the favicon.ico, it's not specific to that page.

Enjoy!

Fred.
Fred Cooke, creator of FreeEMS - The open source engine management system! Number of installs! (with graph)

Also the founder of DIYEFI.org - The Do It Yourself Engine Control Community! Forum available here!
Daniel26
Beiträge: 170
Registriert: Mi Sep 05, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Daniel26 »

Jetzt artet das ganze wohl in nem Privatkrieg aus. FreeEMS vs. MSextra

Lächerlich....
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Fearless
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Re: Megasquirt-Lizenzvertrag?

Beitrag von Fearless »

No war, just humour. As a nation, you're not famous for it. Keep in mind that I came here to offer some support because you were under attack. Aside from humour, let's look at the situation:

Summary of facts:
  • You want to build/use custom hardware with MSExtra variants on it, your way.
  • They don't allow custom hardware that doesn't use their limited and flawed boards.
These ideals are fundamentally incompatible and, in fact, mutually exclusive.

Conjecture:
  • Both of the above listed facts are unlikely to change.
  • You, and others, are unlikely to stop cloning their efforts until a superior option is available.
  • Most likely, M$ firmware availability will be further restricted similar to the hilarious link above. (the original, not my parody thereof)
  • Possibly James and co will sink to their lowest of lows and actually take legal action against certain parties.
IE, this thread is largely pointless, except to:
  • Inform those reading it and
  • Entertain those reading it
Quizas no estoy bastante "seco" para ti.

Fred.
Fred Cooke, creator of FreeEMS - The open source engine management system! Number of installs! (with graph)

Also the founder of DIYEFI.org - The Do It Yourself Engine Control Community! Forum available here!
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